Mitchie Alexander Matt Taylor at the end of the day the local Green Party did not want a Tory MP in Kemptown anymore .... We of course would love a Green government but we are still quite a long way from that happening........ Labour do share some of the same values as Greens .... re nationalising the railways/stopping the further privatisation of the NHS etc. So we'd rather a Labour government than a Tory government .... Standing down was not taking away democracy. I didn't agree with standing down, as how will more Green MP's ever get into Parliament if we don't always stand a candidate. But that is what the local Green Party membership voted for. Caroline also voted at the same meeting, as a local party member ...as she only had the same voting right as every member of the local party did.
Matt Taylor Spit it out Lee; what is it you want to say?
Matt Taylor Breaking News coming on this story.
Matt Taylor WATCH THIS SPACE!
Mitchie Alexander hmmmm you won't have anything to declare as there really wasn't anything! Yes, as i have said before ...local Green Party members voted to stand down the Green candidate (i didn't vote this way but the majority did) ...but NO conversation was ever had between the Greens and Labour ... The Greens have been up for partnerships, if it means that people and the planet will benefit but sadly Labour are only interested in their own status......honestly...this is how it is and how it has been !
Matt Taylor How do you explain this response from Caroline Lucas?
Matt Taylor Dear Matthew,
Many thanks for your message and questions. I certainly had conversations with a few Labour members and activists - and indeed the candidates - during the general election campaign about the Green party’s decision, yes.
The decision wasn’t mine to take, it was taken by the local Party. I supported their stance though and do not regret that the Green party was prepared to step back in this instance. There was overwhelming support for the decision and one of the conditions was that the Labour candidate would support a change in the voting system so we don’t have to have tactical voting in the future.
On whether or not such a decision constitutes meddling with democracy, I’d strongly disagree. No Party is required to stand, and in some seats the Greens simply cannot afford to do so, for example. The decision was taken transparently and if voters disapproved they could eg spoil their ballot paper. That said, I do think we have a deeply unfair voting system and have always advocated for first past the post being replaced with proportional representation. I want a system in which every vote counts and voters are not put in the position of potentially having to vote strategically.
Best wishes, Caroline
Many thanks for your message and questions. I certainly had conversations with a few Labour members and activists - and indeed the candidates - during the general election campaign about the Green party’s decision, yes.
The decision wasn’t mine to take, it was taken by the local Party. I supported their stance though and do not regret that the Green party was prepared to step back in this instance. There was overwhelming support for the decision and one of the conditions was that the Labour candidate would support a change in the voting system so we don’t have to have tactical voting in the future.
On whether or not such a decision constitutes meddling with democracy, I’d strongly disagree. No Party is required to stand, and in some seats the Greens simply cannot afford to do so, for example. The decision was taken transparently and if voters disapproved they could eg spoil their ballot paper. That said, I do think we have a deeply unfair voting system and have always advocated for first past the post being replaced with proportional representation. I want a system in which every vote counts and voters are not put in the position of potentially having to vote strategically.
Best wishes, Caroline
Matt Taylor You say, ".NO conversation was ever had between the Greens and Labour," but Caroline Lucas says, " I certainly had conversations with a few Labour members and activists - and indeed the candidates - during the general election campaign about the Green party’s decision, yes."
Matt Taylor Who shall I believe? You or Caroline Lucas? I am really confused because I asked a simply question.
Matt Taylor What do you make of it Mitchie? Caroline Lucas says she's met labour members, activists and candidates to discuss it; but Labour says they never had a word with the Greens about it.
I'm just a Moulsecoomb resident interested in politics! Perhaps I should just shut up, stop meddling this poison, and retreat under my rock again!
I'm just a Moulsecoomb resident interested in politics! Perhaps I should just shut up, stop meddling this poison, and retreat under my rock again!
Mitchie Alexander Hi Matt ... no need to stop 'meddling' ..you have every right to look for answers if you are unhappy with something. I am surprised by Caroline's email to you. I will contact her for clarification on this.... as i don't want to be saying things that are not true ...i honestly did not think any such conversations had gone on between the Parties. I know that the Greens do push Labour on supporting a change in the current voting system and i know that LR Moyle has said that he does support some change in the voting system but not exactly the system that Greens would like to see. Maybe the conversation was more of a 'if you support a change in the voting system then we will ask our members whether or not they wish our Green candidates to stand down' .... But my feeling is that Caroline may then have spoken to LC Russell-Moyle but i really don't think he would have agreed to cooperate ...as basically Labour don't work with other parties ...i even think it's against their constitution? Greens WILL talk and work with other parties if it means a better good for the people and for the planet. Caroline is the only Green MP out of 650 MP's so she is well used to being the only one in a sea of non Green colours. We badly need to see this number rise and the only way is for a change in the voting system (in other European countries where they don't have our first past the post method Greens are much stronger). So corporation could well have been seeked but i really don't think any deals were done.... i will ask though as i don't want to be misinformed ...
Caroline Tdc Youthworker For some reason when you click on Caroline in the above it links to my page. Just to clairify I did not write this so not sure why it links to me. I presume it is Caroline Lucas
Mitchie Alexander oh dear.... Matt Taylor can you get the link changed please!
Matt Taylor Done, sorry about that Caroline. It was definitely Caroline Lucas, and no one other Caroline.
I'm going to have to ask Caroline Lucas to clarify exactly who she spoke to in Labour about their plan not to field a candidate.
I'm surprised at Simon Burgess's reaction, and I'm interested to hear what Lloyd Russell Moyles has to say for himself.
I'm going to have to ask Caroline Lucas to clarify exactly who she spoke to in Labour about their plan not to field a candidate.
I'm surprised at Simon Burgess's reaction, and I'm interested to hear what Lloyd Russell Moyles has to say for himself.
Mitchie Alexander What was Simon Burgess's reaction?
Matt Taylor He said this to me on the 16 Feb;
"I'm so angry at your lies. I said I didn't know anything because as I said I wasnt involved or around at the time. How on earth does that turn into a denial of something happening??!!
I wasn't there, I don't know - that's what I've told you and you have turned that into me denying something taking place. I don't know the answers to your questions.
Words fail me, such deliberate deceit makes me so angry.
Simon."
"I'm so angry at your lies. I said I didn't know anything because as I said I wasnt involved or around at the time. How on earth does that turn into a denial of something happening??!!
I wasn't there, I don't know - that's what I've told you and you have turned that into me denying something taking place. I don't know the answers to your questions.
Words fail me, such deliberate deceit makes me so angry.
Simon."
Matt Taylor And on the 18 Feb, he sent me this;
"I will calm down when you stop maliciously making stuff up, yes I have responded with considerable anger because you have completely ignored what I have said and have made stuff up to suit your agenda – think about the impact of what you are doing on other people’s mental health. I am not interested in the issue and have no idea at all whether anything did or did not take place. When I am completely honest with someone and they do this it does make me angry.
I don’t explain anyone else’s response. I have no idea about Caroline’s response, I have no knowledge to explain it, I have no interest it. I am not and have not been involved in party stuff in Kemptown since 2010 - I am running a constituency service for an MP that helps people with life impacting services such as benefits, housing and immigration.
Simon."
"I will calm down when you stop maliciously making stuff up, yes I have responded with considerable anger because you have completely ignored what I have said and have made stuff up to suit your agenda – think about the impact of what you are doing on other people’s mental health. I am not interested in the issue and have no idea at all whether anything did or did not take place. When I am completely honest with someone and they do this it does make me angry.
I don’t explain anyone else’s response. I have no idea about Caroline’s response, I have no knowledge to explain it, I have no interest it. I am not and have not been involved in party stuff in Kemptown since 2010 - I am running a constituency service for an MP that helps people with life impacting services such as benefits, housing and immigration.
Simon."
Mitchie Alexander Actually he probably didn't work for Lloyd Russel Moyle's office until he was elected in mid 2017 ...so he would not actually have been part of any conversations before the election.
Matt Taylor Oh please Mitchie; this was why I started digging in the first place. I've been involved with politics, and know it's a people's business, in which the main duty is to meet people, make deals and do whatever you can to get elected.
I haven't got any problem with our politicians doing secret deals behind closed doors. Just don't lie about it.
You have to understand Burgess's role within Labour for the last 25 years.
He was the back rock of Des Turner's time in office, he helped him get elected an impressive 3 times. He helped Kyle get elected and now he's office manager for Russell-Moyles.
I'm not exaggerating when I say Burgess is Labour's deal maker, supremo and main man.
So to suggest he had no role in the deal for the Greens to step back, is in my opinion, naive. Which means I'm calling you naive Mitchie; I've been called naive enough times in my life, so I don't call other people naive without due thought and consideration; but on this occasion I think you are being naive to thinkBurgess had no part in any conversation with the Greens before the election.
I will be asking Caroline Lucas for clarification, but I don't think it needs it.
She said she spoke to party members, officials and activists, within Labour, plus the candidates. Simon Burgess and Russell-Moyles would have been one of those she mentioned.
I've caught Labour lying and I can prove it.
Get over it; politicians lie!
I haven't got any problem with our politicians doing secret deals behind closed doors. Just don't lie about it.
You have to understand Burgess's role within Labour for the last 25 years.
He was the back rock of Des Turner's time in office, he helped him get elected an impressive 3 times. He helped Kyle get elected and now he's office manager for Russell-Moyles.
I'm not exaggerating when I say Burgess is Labour's deal maker, supremo and main man.
So to suggest he had no role in the deal for the Greens to step back, is in my opinion, naive. Which means I'm calling you naive Mitchie; I've been called naive enough times in my life, so I don't call other people naive without due thought and consideration; but on this occasion I think you are being naive to thinkBurgess had no part in any conversation with the Greens before the election.
I will be asking Caroline Lucas for clarification, but I don't think it needs it.
She said she spoke to party members, officials and activists, within Labour, plus the candidates. Simon Burgess and Russell-Moyles would have been one of those she mentioned.
I've caught Labour lying and I can prove it.
Get over it; politicians lie!
Roger Jago UKIP did opted not to stand, possibly to protect the narrow Tory seat. (almost 4 million votes in 2015 got UKIP NIL MPs, compared to SNP getting 56 MPs for less votes, thanks to our existing non-democratic electoral system). So I marked my ballot "None of the above" - which should be printed on every ballot paper to prove why so many votes are wasted, and fewer citizens bother to vote other than for the Big 2 monopolies. Having told the Tory canvasser this, I was rewarded by him kicking my front door that night in his anger!!
Mitchie Alexander It wasn't right for your door to be kicked .... Voting system badly need to change .... Greens would also have at least 25 MP's under a different voting system ...so not a huge number out of 650 but a lot more than 1.
Matt Taylor Interesting Roger and good info. I knew UKIP didn't field a candidate, and reinforces my contention that LRM is the luckiest man in British politics.
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